Finding the Balance with Autism and Neurodiversity in Shared Spaces with Alex Leech

 S1 Ep 4 Alex and Maggie - Neurodiversity and Clutter

Maggie Brittain: She coaches parents she's working with children. Is that correct, Alex? On both ends.

Alex Leech: Yeah. I work with, age 10 up until like age 17.

But I find I really love that sort of eight to 10, up to age, you know, 16, 17 age group. They're in the most difficult and most people are like, ah. And I'm like, give it to me. [00:01:00] I 

Maggie Brittain: we all have a place in this world. So Alex, why don't you go into, explain how you really found this work and or how did this work find you.

Tell us about your journey to this point now.

Alex Leech: Okay. So how this work found me slash I found it was I come from a very creative family and we are very outside the box. Right? And my whole time growing up, I found it difficult. I had lots of friends, but I didn't have like really good friends. I found it difficult to connect. I knew I was smart. I knew I could, I always had sort of different ways, but I was always sort of like, felt like my wings were pinned when I was in school.

And because like, I just couldn't, I could see everybody grasping things and doing things and I just didn't do it that way. So, fast forward and I went right up into, [00:02:00] you know, you know university specialization, post-grad work. I was a regulated healthcare profess. In medical field for over 23 years. So I have all that experience in there too.

But suddenly, you know, here I am a parent with two kids. First of all, my son who is now just about to turn 16, and my daughter who is 13 and. Their childhood, I could start seeing certain things come out. Even like very early on, like around that, even my son was organizing cars and things like around a year and I'm like, Ooh, is that a O C D?

Ooh, maybe that's been great. I'm have a kid's gonna have clean bedroom. No, I'm not . Because I found out what happened, what I, and, and through their process going into school and, and how they were socializing, like in, you know, preschool and school and this, there were all these like red flags and I was talking with our pediatrician a lot and I said, I think my ki [00:03:00] I think there's autism.

I think there, there's something there. And so I pushed and pushed and pushed and having the background that I do allowed me to, you know, speak the doctor, speak and. and really advocate for my kids. And both of them are autistic. My son has Asperger's, it's part of the autism.

Don't get me started on how things are shifting in that world, but they're both autistic.

They both have multiple diagnoses that fall in the neurodivergent realm. There is ADHD, there's sensory processing, there's working memory. There's a whole slew of stuff there, right? And so once I had that information, it, it was like the heavens open because suddenly my whole childhood made sense. And I realized that, you know, I am autistic.

I have a adhd, [00:04:00] I have dyslexia. And so it's not like all of a sudden everything became easier, but it was under, it was so much more understandable. And again, fast forward. Being a regulated health professional and talking with a lot of clients and, and patients it just naturally fell into the consulting and the, the coaching aspect.

When I left that world and people were like, okay, well you, they just started asking me questions like, how, how did you get your kids to do this? How did you get your kids signed up for that? How you know you have X, Y, and Z? And then it's just like people start asking me questions. 

Like, for parents with kids with autism and adhd. And it was right there in front of my face. But as a parent, you're in it and you don't see it. And then, , it just all kind of came together. And I've been doing this a hundred percent full-time now for the past two years.

[00:05:00] Right. And I, I love it because what I have learned from my own experience and my children's experience, yes, it's specifically for kids with, you know, families with, you know, autism and adhd and all the others, right. That fall into the neurodivergent arena.

A lot of these strategies, they work for everybody, right? We all have emotions. We all become dysregulated. You know, it's, it's, we all have ways that we, we cope, but . And what I found is it's about communication and expectations, right? And as parents, when we are, for example, when it comes to organization in our home and trying to have our kids clean the room or help out in their house, right?

We have the expectation to how we have been raised. And then we expect that that's how it's gonna be for our children. And I find, and a lot of parents, they don't like to hear this because we've been so conditioned as parents that when our children [00:06:00] have complex challenges, that we go and we get therapy outside of the home.

We get resources outside of the home. And yes, that's important, but it's almost like we've been disempowered as parents, right? Because we have so much going on and it is exhausting and add any other, you know difference. It just is a lot more work, a lot more consideration. But when we are able to pull back.

that power and we empower the family and the parents understand what the diagnosis is. What does that mean in general? What does that mean for their child? What does that mean for their family? You have dynamic because it's every relationship in that family is affected, right? So we have to, as parents meet our kids where they're at, whether they have autism or any other complex challenge or not.

It's the, we have to meet them where they're at. And it's how we communicate and how set expectations [00:07:00] is how we can get our children to get confidence in their own capabilities and the belief in themselves. And a huge part of that is how we are communicating our expectations for say, the household and being part of the household.

Right. And I find that a lot of parents are like, wait a minute, what are you talking about? I'm like, it's really about how we use language, right? And, and how we think. Get information in chunkable pieces of information and make it small, but make it attainable tasks. And it's all about, we all know we want our kids to do something and they're not doing it and they seem to be not motivated or they're procrastinating, but it's why they're not lazy.

And especially when you look at autism, adhd, there is something called overwhelm and paralysis because even though it seems very simple for everyone else to do [00:08:00] like clean a room or do this assignment right, It's like, it's so much to do that there's a paralysis that is happening and to the outside world or to the parent, it looks like the child isn't engaged or they're not motivated or they don't care.

That is not true. That child is in defense mode. We call that defense mode, and that's how, so if as a parent, if we can not look at that executive functioning and organization and prioritizing first, right? And we go into how are they feeling and what, are they grounded? Are they feeling more calm? It's expectations, clarity of instructions.

When that is more in small, digestible and easy to understand chunks of information for both parties, then that's where the motivation and productivity comes 

Maggie Brittain: It's such an important message because for on so many levels, [00:09:00] but mainly because, like you said, that dynamic of that family and figuring out how each person really works together and how they're thinking and taking a step back to understand

how they're processing their space.

And I wanted to. Bring out what you said because as a parent of a Neurodiverse child I did just want to really stress what you said, that it's not laziness. And so yes, you may have a child

that 

Alex Leech: No, not laziness at all.

Maggie Brittain: busy and wants to be with their friends there.

Of course there is that. But if you have a child, especially if you're seeing continual patterns that they're struggling with their space or, you know, keeping up with anything that is in the home along with of course, school and life and social that they're processing it differently and it's not [00:10:00] laziness.

Alex Leech: And like I said, we could go on for days about that, but I, I, I'm really curious because I feel that. a lot of people as they go through the diagnosis process with their children like you did, you come to realize that it all makes sense, it's things are coming together and you're starting to see your childhood and how you are processing things differently. Yeah. I had to let go a lot of expectations that I had myself. And also too, what I seen as cluttered and messy is

perspective versus their perspective. And it's bridging that gap, right? So yes, there are setting expectations, but it's realistic expectations, right? And but I found even when, like, I have two examples in my head right now.

One is my daughter's, vanity under [00:11:00] it is a disaster. It's got band-aid wrappers, it's got everything. But if I move anything from there, she just loses it. Like we go into anxiety and meltdown and, you know, to anybody that does not have a, a child with autism or like, well what's the big deal?

And you're like, oh, it's a big deal. She can't sleep, she can't concentrate it. She goes into this freeze mode. And and so in, for the past three years, cuz we moved three years ago, the top of that. Vanity hasn't changed, and we have to take things in very small, slow processes, right? And, and then you hear other parents, or you know, my parents and, and even , my husband, like he gets very frustrated on certain things and it's like, okay, I'm taking lead. This is mine. I, I will bring you in for reinforcement if need, right? But sometimes what happens [00:12:00] is two parents, you think you're on the same page, but you're not a hundred percent on the same page, right?

So if one parent is giving them the task, that parent stays, I find has to be continued, the lead. And if they have to say, go out or do something else, they pass on what the expectations are to the other parent. I found that as very helpful. But back to my daughter's vanity Top, I had to let it go. , the rest of the room is tidy and organized.

And, we set

time periods in the calendar ahead of time, so she knows, and we set very clear expectations and routines and schedules. Right. But I am, I've chosen, that is a battle I'm not going to take on because it's not worth the stress, not only for myself, but for her. Right. Because I don't understand it.

But that doesn't mean it's real. And that's what a lot of children with complex challenges, neuro [00:13:00] divergent children in the neuro diver, not even children, adults, a lot of it is, we're not believed that this is what we're thinking or this is how we're feeling because the other person doesn't understand just because the other person doesn't understand or can't put.

Or doesn't quite get it, it does not mean that it is not real for that individual. And that is the, the misunderstanding in the being misunderstood is a huge part of the neuro divergent experience. So as a parent, , nobody intentionally make their child feel bad.

But what happens when this is what you want to have done and it's not happening even in a generous timeframe. Right? So there's conflict, but ha why is there conflict there? It's that, is it the expectations are different for you and your child? Is it how it's been communicated? Is is the. The ask of the task too open. , right? For some [00:14:00] people it's like, I need you to have your room clean by the end of the weekend. Well, for a parent that has an autistic child or adhd, any neurodivergent child, that's too open-ended.

 It's it also, it's a collaboration, right? You'll get more out of your child when you collaborate. I'm not saying you give them willy-nilly access and all that, but it's, you can start that at any, you know, pretty much any age where, okay, you know, you like your room this way. We have to remember it's their room. 

Maggie Brittain: Personal spaces do need to be approached differently because they are processing it differently and on their own

timeframe. You know, what I can accomplish in 20 minutes can look very differently to someone in their own space. 

Alex Leech: Mm-hmm.

Maggie Brittain: how you were saying, getting specific, I mean, that's

something that I work with even on clients. [00:15:00] Don't necessarily have a diagnosis and just by being specific and breaking it down into those smaller tasks, I see more progress with that than, like you were saying, than just a, a combined overall goal. 

 Can you talk a little bit about keeping a space, you know, Fairly clutter free and just what those routines might look like.

Alex Leech: Well, for example I have adhd, right? And so I, I go through periods of I'm highly organized and things pile up, but I, my piles or disorganization is organized chaos. I found that having designated spots, yes, I would love it to be in a nice kitchen organizer.

, on your Instagram , you know, the, , the station, right?

Cause I have that and I try to contain it in a spot. I, I find that [00:16:00] I get very distracted when I am cleaning. And for example, I've been for the past three months trying to finish cleaning up my closet. My closet's pretty clean, but I have about, I have about two to three, two and a half laundry baskets full of stuff still that I have to sort through.

And I go, okay, today I'm gonna do this. And I sit down and I look at that and I find it very overwhelming just to look at that. Right? So part of the way, and that's something that I've learned for myself and I use with my kids and I help my clients with their children, is saying when you wait around for motivation, it never comes.

You could wait 10 days, 10 years for motivation to come. It's called Eat the Frog first.

It's either you take the, the, the, the task that seems to be more overwhelming or the worst part of it, and you start tackling that, and then it gets better from there, right? If you eat the frog for breakfast in the morning, that's the worst part of your day. , right? That's [00:17:00] that concept. But then also too, that doesn't always work.

And sometimes it does work. Cuz that's the thing about being neurodivergent, right? What works for you now might not work for you later in the afternoon or tomorrow. And that's a very frustrating thing that I find parents who are raising autistic and ADHD in neuro divergent kids, they find that frustration because it worked here and now it's not working there in a short timeframe.

So it's having an arsenal, a toolkit of resources that you can use. But the other thing is too with motivation is, okay, your child, say your child, or even yourself, it's like, I can't do it. I can't do it. I'm waiting, I'll wait. I'll put it off. I'll do it in an hour. And if you can set a timer, or the five minute rule as you set a timer and said, I'm just gonna engage this task for five minutes.

Right? And that and that. I know there's a zen monk saying, you know, to start, you just start, well, that's easy for a lot of people, but when you are experiencing like a task [00:18:00] paralysis or an overwhelm, , you start to go into this negative thinking and thought and, and emotion and behavior.

What's wrong with me? Why? So it's how can you set yourself up or how can you help your children set themselves up for success? Right? Because if you are feeling a lot of neurodivergence, when we are, we feel something, we feel very viscerally.

. Like even that little bit of anxiety can be. something that shuts down like suddenly that, you know, the survival brain is like alert, alert, there's, you know, this is emotion, you're feeling it anxious and then it shuts down that, communication for the limbic system to say this is a good stress or a bad stress.

And then when that isn't working well, your prefrontal cortex where language and executive thought and all that happening has been completely, disconnect and you can't have that thought process. So having [00:19:00] that understanding what's happening physiologically also takes a lot of that judgment and pressure out because they're like, oh, it's not somebody just playing silly buggers.

Like it's, you know, they're not being a pain in the butt on purpose. They're not being dramatic. Like this is what's happening. So if we can. , get them even to do something for five minutes at a time. And then, and then the timer goes off, then they can stop and then there's a little reward or it might be just enough to get them into the activity and then they can continue and move. But that activity really, I find, and I hear it out from a lot of the parents, are, you know, they're fighting me or they start and they don't, and, and, and the room gets messier. I find they're just sitting there and you're like, okay, well has the task been communicated clearly and within expectations of their capabilities?

Right. And [00:20:00] do they understand it? Right. And and also, Sometimes as parents, we motivate using negative language like the word stop. And don't, and you shouldn't. And there's another thing I say, , you can't say, don't imagine yourself in a forest.

All you do is imagine yourself in the forest, right? So if you're saying, I don't like how this has been done, all they could see is how it's being done. So it's. , imagine yourself in a desert or shelf in the ocean, or imagine if we could just get this part of the room tidy than clean, how much better you would feel. So changing the language, changing a word here, right, makes all the difference.

Maggie Brittain: , I also wanna stress that when you were talking about them going into, you know, paralysis and just freezing and becoming overwhelmed, that could be the result of a simple task. Some people might assume that that just might [00:21:00] mean that it was a grand task that was asked of the child, but it could be something so simple as, you know, placing something

in a different drawer, I mean, something so small can create a lot of sense of overwhelm, sensory overload, and just that paralysis

that you were talking about. And one thing that I've found that has worked with my clients, with my family and that I'm curious to see if you use that concept of body doubling of being in this space. With the child,

with that other person has profound impact on the progress that I can make with a client and with even myself it works.

You know, even if I'm putting away laundry and , my husband's is watching TV or something. At the same time. Just having that other body

there to bring [00:22:00] you back on track and to regain focus, , is that something you have found helpful for yourself or your children or your clients?

Track 1: Yes. For for Y. Yes. Yes. And yes, and yes. Like I'm laughing for those who are only listening and can't see the video, I'm like, so animated, like, oh my god. Yes. Right. So body doubling, right. Being present even in something like homework. Right. I find that just me sitting and I'm not doing it for them. And that's a whole thing.

Like as a parent, right? No matter, I mean, yes, there are, depending on the age and capability of your children, right? There are certain things that you do have to, not just homework, but do have to help them with and do. Right? But a lot of times is parents, whether your kids are neurodivergent or not. We try to go in to.

right? And what happens is when we go into fix, or something's taking a long time or not happening on quote our timeline, we [00:23:00] go take over. What happens with that is we have just disempowered our children. We have taken, we start to take away their, their sense of autonomy, some choice. And so we all as parents, want to raise resilient and happy children, right? And self-driven. And self-driven doesn't mean that you're gonna be a captain of industry. Self-driven just means you make choices and you are empowered and you have autonomy and you can be productive to the best of your ability at any point in time. . Is allowing our children to figure it out. So they learn by doing and by us being there. You have to let them try. And that's how they will be able to have the belief in their own capabilities. Right. And that also is a small lesson that will help them to know when and how to ask for help. If we jump in and help all the time, they're not gonna [00:24:00] learn that lesson.

Maggie Brittain: Right being able to do just those daily tasks, you know, a lot of what's

Track 1: Mm-hmm.

Maggie Brittain: a space organized and clutter free. is the mundane task that nobody wants to do. And over time, like you said, when you allow them

to take those roles on themselves, it gives them the mental, processing, okay, this is something I can do . that independence for any child. Is only going to help. And it's, and it does, and you, it takes self-control on the parent's end to step back. You know, , let them , shove their shirts to the drawer. If that's what that means. 

Alex Leech: Yeah.

Maggie Brittain: But if they're getting the job done,

then you can improve over time. But celebrating those wins is certainly important.

Alex Leech: Yeah. So, , [00:25:00] for example, like shoving things in a drawer, right? Used to drive me nuts cuz their shorts crinkled, right? Their shorts and stuff were crinkled and wrinkled and I hate wrinkly clothes, right? And to them, it doesn't matter. And they're like, well, it doesn't matter. I'm like, it matters, but it mattered to me, not them.

So I had to let it go. And, just thinking of the client, a similar situation, but I'll apply it to the, the shorts. But what they, what they were talking about is, okay, I let them do it and then when they're not around, I go back and redo it. And first of all, a, that's another job for you.

But the subconscious unconscious message that child is receiving when they go back and they look and it's all refolded, is a, oh, I did it wrong. My parents don't believe that I have the ability to do it. They don't believe in me. . And they're already experiencing that in other aspects of their life, possibly.

. It all comes down again to communication and respect, cuz we, the way that we teach our children to have respect [00:26:00] for others is having respect for them and showing them respect. So if I go in and say, no, this isn't allowed in your room and this and that, and the next thing that it's, it's doing the reverse of what we want.

However, as a parent, I, I put things in categories. I said, there's hard stop parenting, there's no choice. Like, and either as your safety or there's a real reason why this must be done. And it's sort of may not be global, but it's part of the, you know, we say we, it's part of the social

Maggie Brittain: right?

That balance. Again, 

Track 1: And, and for example, a balance, right? So it's like, you know, we try not to have food in the room. So that's, that, that didn't work because our children both are autistic and sometimes they need their, their room is their personal retreat. It's their safe, the one place they can go at any time where they're feeling dysregulated or they need to feel safe.

[00:27:00] Not to say that they don't feel safe anywhere else, but that is their spot. Right? But it is still under my roof, right? So it is no dirty dishes. If you bring a dish in, it comes out and, and there's that dance, that negotiation dance. 

But taking that to say, my child who was autistic, right? I can't move anything on certain things. And Anna's taken me three years to get my daughter's room organized up until Christmas. The rest of her room was a bit of a disaster. And, and walking around things, even boxes in the closet. But that box is in that space and she knows what's in there and it's there and you can't move it because if you move it, she might not be able to sleep.

She can't think, she can't, cuz it sends in a different space. 

But also too, why? So getting my child and getting your child to tell you the story behind it.

If they have a story behind it and they say it's important to them, but it's a story, then it's like, okay, well [00:28:00] let's put this in a keepsake box or let's put this in this bin that goes in this on this shelf. And you can access it at any time. But it's like if you don't have a story, if it's just cause then we talk about it and like, what is it?

It's garbage. , like it's, it's a band-aid wrapper, or it's a Kleenex, or it's an elastic band, or it's something right? Or it's a broken bracelet. Well, what is the significance to this? If it's a broken bracelet and it's something that she's never gonna wear again, and it doesn't have any real, doesn't have a story that is important to her behind it, then it's like, okay, well let's just put it in this box here. And if by the next time we get to it and you haven't thought about it or missed or whatever, then it can, it can go. 

Maggie Brittain: I mean, the podcast is called Mind Your Clutter, right? Because it is, it's the action, but it's so much the the thought behind. Why [00:29:00] you have something and why it's there. And, but being willing to have that conversation with your child, they're gonna

surprise you every time you ask them that question. You know, it might, yes, it might just be trash, but

it might have a significance. So asking that question and let, getting them to start to practice that, why, where, why is it here? Why do you have it,

why is it important? Is so, so, I love that, that that's, you know, something that you're doing at home.

Alex Leech: And another another thing that I do at home that I find, and I find a lot of parents, they, they, they like to use it. And it's one of the, the benefits of living in a digital age, right? So is it something. , you know, is that piece of whatever that there's an attachment to is cause, especially for autism. My daughter, it's, it may not be, it just looks like rapper, but she loves [00:30:00] how it, it has that silky feel.

So sometimes she'll go and she'll pick it up and it's soothing and grounding for her. Right? Or another time, or it's, it's the sound, right? So there's, there's, there's a physical sensation when she touches that, that makes her feel better. Right? And, and to me, I'm like, what the, like, I, I don't get it right, but that's for her.

And I'm like, well, do we need 12 pieces of those, you know, or do we need all these? And then so other times, so if, if there's something that it has like a tactile or an audio or you know, and it's not just visual, then okay, that's there. But I found in the digital age, I said, well, can we take a picture of it?

Right? So it's this, do we really need it? It's broken. , we really need to take up space, cuz our space is very limited here. Right? But can I take a picture of it so you can access it any time you want. And so we use [00:31:00] Google photos and we put, we have a file and we put all the things that she wants to keep sort of keepsakes of that wouldn't necessarily go in a keepsake box or tub.

And so we find that works like the, even with artwork that she knows she's not gonna keep, she doesn't wanna display, but she, she wants it and it's all crinkled and, and all this. I'm like, well, we're running outta space. Let's take a picture of it. And so suggesting take a picture of it and making a you know, making an album.

That's, that I found very helpful. That's another form of organization too. Right. So it doesn't have to be physical. 

Maggie Brittain: So if someone listening , is looking for ways that they can embrace a space for their child so that it does limit that sensory overload, that overwhelm that sense of paralysis.

Have you found [00:32:00] that certain spaces, the way that they're set up, or what is in the space, what's not in the space is just as important? Do you find that helps, with sleep, with learning, , their school environments, what are you seeing that's working?

Alex Leech: Mm-hmm. . . So for example, my daughter, right? And I, I hear this with a lot of parents that have autistic children, and you know, especially for the neurodivergent population, sleep isn't as easy as one thinks, right? And so my daughter, myself, I myself have to, I have a routine that I have to follow in order for me to fall asleep.

But, you know, and explaining to her children that, you know, you can have routines and things in place, but that doesn't always guarantee a good night's sleep or good study habits. However I know that with my daughter that if something is outta [00:33:00] place, she can't focus, right? So it's okay. So having that into place, so helping our children, because how I would organize a room is probably about 80% of what it is now.

And it took time, but it took a lot of collaboration and it took a lot of me stepping back saying, and just reminding myself that it's not my room. Right? It's not my room and I can help her, but I have to help her have that as a comfortable space. But it's really helping them to figure out what is important. 

What is that environment to you that might encourage you or motivate you or make you feel, you know, comfortable.

Maggie Brittain: The sense of that space that is working for them and that is encouraging

a positive learning environment or the sleep and just having less to pay attention to 

I [00:34:00] think is very important, especially if you have a parent who may be less likely to understand what their child is going through, they just might have to change their own habits and patterns and work on their space so that they can create positive environments for their children so that they can, like you mentioned earlier, you know, they're. Stress about spelling, there is stress about social interactions in schools, and then to come home into that safe space and into that space that promotes just self-love and comfort is, is something that, some parents might have to shift the way that they do things so that they can pass that on a positive environment for their children.

Alex Leech: Well, that, that's the thing, right? A lot of times, we have to take ourselves out of the equation, because it's not about us. However, when it comes to organization and clutter that it [00:35:00] is in a way about us because it's our home, right? So it's, it's, it's shifting that conversation a little bit. Like sometimes clutter isn't about just being a messy person. It's not a lot of, that has such an emotional, there's a, there's a whole emotional compartment that people don't really see or understand because they don't understand. It doesn't mean that it's not true.

 So if we can, you know, we, and I say to parents, if we can work on ourselves first and have that understanding of what's going on in here, because even when it comes to organization, our children learn from, you know, a really young age up until even young adults, right? They're watching us. They're, they're sponges.

They're watching. And so I always say to myself, and I ask parents, ask themselves this, like, what is the action? What am I by saying something or doing something? [00:36:00] What am I demonstrating? What am I showing my children? So if I'm telling my children that they have to, you know, say the emotional clutter, ? That they have to, self-regulate but then they see us getting frustrated and losing our crap all the time and, and doing this. They're like, you're telling me to do this, but they're actually learning from us, right?

So we do the work first. Yes, we're here for your children, but let's do a little bit of this work first. And then when we do this work first, then you will be better equipped with more tools and a deeper understanding on a neuroscience level, on, the diagnosis level or just, , human being level.

Maggie Brittain: If anybody takes anything away from this conversation, it's the communication. It's understanding the other people in your home, how they're thinking. how their brain works and being open to doing things a little bit differently. I think that those are all really [00:37:00] important messages that you are obviously helping people with and I think will help a lot of the people that have been listening. So, if someone knows, okay, I do, I want to set this, I want my space set up. I wanna do the work so that I can better understand my child, who may be autistic, who may have some neurodiverse diagnosis. Where can they find you? 

Alex Leech: Thank you. Well, the best place to go is alexleech.ca.

 Will make sure all of those

Maggie Brittain: links are in the show notes for easy access. And I think that we are just getting started with this conversation because , there are so many layers and levels of understanding that set everybody up for success .

Alex Leech: Oh, thank you. I love it. Thank you so much, Maggie. I'm just very feel very blessed that I [00:38:00] have the life experience and the professional experience to be able to help.

Because being neuro divergent and raising neuro divergent children is. . It's just a whole other level of complexity.

Maggie Brittain: For sure. Yes. Well, thank you

Alex. I look forward to connecting with you soon and thank you everybody for tuning in.